Curse

BDStyle · Nov 20, 2006, 11:13 AM // 11:13

The update that caused the ai to run away in self defence, switch targets often and generally behave in a less robotic fashion has caused outrage in some and happiness in others.

For me I'm pleased with it, I have played for 17months. During this time the ai pattern became somewhat predictable, because of this after a while predicatable=boring. The problem was there were certain builds and classes, skill tree's and effects that were deamed useless by the pug playing masses.
EG a snaring water ele would never be taken over a meteor shower nuker.
Now with this new update this mass snare water ele is incredibly powerful. While the enemies are moving they aren't attacking.. so the slower they move the more time you get to deal with them

Simple really.
In the old days what would happen is a tank would draw agro.. stay there and the ele would cast ms and all would die.. now the ai runs around not centering agro it means all these 'useless' skills can get alot more use and be seen in a better light.

The argument of course is farming in many area's for many people has become alot harder. For me thats not part of my game.. I gvg and play pvp alot and pve for me is just a wind down. I'm not saying the whole economy/farming thing isn't important to the game but for people who don't care about it this new ai behaviour is damn good fun.

Basically anything that makes me think more about use of my build and using differing builds for differant area's that aren't 'cookie cutter' and still be useful is great.

Anyones thoughts on this?

Oh btw.. no flames please, I am aware this ai has royally annoyed people in some area's, i'm not saying you should shut up. I'm just explaining why for me its all good

Lord Sojar · Nov 20, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

DIE AI. *rips eyes out with rusty spoon and tears own heart out while screaming that phrase* I HATE you Anet. Rebirth = useless WEEEEEEEEE@#W!#$!$)!*$&(!#$@&

BDStyle · Nov 20, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

ok You are trying to order a hero that won't move? If thats a case then yeah it sucks.. happens to me sometimes but its very rare.

Looks like a case of long range agro to me. If so whats wrong with that?

Btw loved your idea for a comp heh, pity i wasn't around for it.

*edit* just reading your post now.. heh I don't believe the ai is as bad as you say imo, but we shall leave that convo for your thread.

I for one am saying i like the challenge.

Lord Sojar · Nov 20, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDStyle

ok You are trying to order a hero that won't move? If thats a case then yeah it sucks.. happens to me sometimes but its very rare.

Looks like a case of long range agro to me. If so whats wrong with that?

Btw loved your idea for a comp heh, pity i wasn't around for it.

Thanks for compition comment. I enjoyed it.

Anywho. No, actually, what is happening here is that most of my party wiped. I cant run in there and rez using rebirth because monsters wont unaggro. So I have to order my hench monk to go die and me to go die (thus incurring more DP) just to continue (hopefully) onwards.

BDStyle · Nov 20, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

I had this prob till I noticed a way of stopping it.

I and a friend had our heroes wiped and we were getting long agro from a mob.

we found that the agro only stays for a while.. you can wait it out and it stops. The best place to test this is the forts with the acolytes in. the acolyte mob does long range agro for a while after you engage. However after a period in time they stop.

I'm not sure what the parameters for forcing the disengagement is but what I was doing was 'draw killing' by luring a group out.. the other mob would long rage agro.. I'd then snare the first group up and walk back with my mate. Once we killed one mob the other lost its agro and went back to normal.

I think more testing is needed lol.

kazjun · Nov 20, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Not really had this problem yet. The closest I've come is in the shadow challenge. After hitting the portal wraithes and running out, they do chase you for a bit, but they give up soon enough. Not seen this bit where they chase you across whole screens.

Ninna · Nov 20, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

Not seen this bit where they chase you across whole screens.

I like the new AI but I have seen this

in the Elona mission, if you grab the 3rd crystal and run
- the boss may chase you all the way back to the hero

I was chased by the mesmer boss (nothing else) all the way back

we killed the boss at the ghosts feet before turning in the crystal but I've never seen that before (and Ive done this mission 20+ times)

aron searle · Nov 20, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Rebirth = useless

offtopic

Whilst rebirht can be usfull, i would love for it to be deleted, im sick of people using it mid fight.

Lord Sojar · Nov 20, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

offtopic

Whilst rebirht can be usfull, i would love for it to be deleted, im sick of people using it mid fight.

LOL, true. But still, my reason for removal is because of the AI being STUPID BEYOND ANY WORDS THAT CAN DESCRIBE IT (/endcapsbomb)

BTW> those words didnt describe it, because as i said, you cannot describe it.

Cyan The Archer · Nov 20, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDStyle

I had this prob till I noticed a way of stopping it.

I and a friend had our heroes wiped and we were getting long agro from a mob.

we found that the agro only stays for a while.. you can wait it out and it stops. The best place to test this is the forts with the acolytes in. the acolyte mob does long range agro for a while after you engage. However after a period in time they stop.

Strange how it appears different to many others. I have waited 5 minutes and still have the mob getting aggrod even though it was miles away, just because they wiped my party. 5 minutes IS a long time.. The mob should go away, and you should be free to res without problems.

It sounds like you dont PvE much, and use your time in PvP more so you maybe havent seen the horrible AI for real.

Orinn · Nov 20, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

The in-combat AI, with switching targets, some kiting, and general improvements, is actually not too bad. My main problems with the current AI are the chase/flee problems, where they chase or run forever. But when you can get a group of mobs to settle down for an honest brawl, the new AI makes things a bit more challenging, without being absurd.

GranDeWun · Nov 20, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Do the quest to rescue Koss, and watch the enemy priests run TOWARDS you from two aggro circles away, leaving their groups behind.... I'd say the AI could use some refinement...

Incandecree · Nov 20, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

We were in ToPK a week ago on the last level. We had an almost complete party wipe against The Darkness. Only myself and one of the monks had survived. Both of us split off from each other and the Terrorweb Dryders were aggro-locked on the monk. They followed the monk from one end of the map to the other. They finally took the monk out. I was sitting way aways from everything and waited. I watched them come back and lock on me when I wasn't even close to them.

chessyang · Nov 20, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDStyle

For me I'm pleased with it, I have played for 17months. During this time the ai pattern became somewhat predictable, because of this after a while predicatable=boring.

same here. i'm glad the AI moves when i'm wacking it to death. i've enjoyied it beside the buggy part of it but ya i agree the NEW (minus the slight bug) is a lot better

Str0b0 · Nov 20, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I've had instances of mass aggro where there was no wipe involved. I targeted one group, that was well away from other groups I might add, and suddenly the entire zone rushed me. I only wish I was exaggerating. It was just this unending mass of enemies coming at us and of course we died then only to have the long range aggro kick in and keep us from moving forward. This was in Mineral Springs, a bad place for mass aggro. There was no waiting it out. They came at us at the rez shrine. The AI is bugged, end of story. I would infinitely prefer they just revert it to the chicken run AoE version instead of this PvP like version they have now. PvP behavior is too complex to be scripted into an AI without these sort of unexpected interactions. I might also add that PvE is not supposed to be like PvP. While you may see the challenge as invigorating I know that myself and many others see this new AI as frustrating. At this point it is literally making me reconsider my purchase. I'd rather pay a subscription fee to WoW, which has a proper PvE AI, than play GW for free with the current AI. I can't even bring myself to progress through the game anymore. I've been helping people in Ascalon mostly rather than deal with the aggravation of the AI launching mass aggro against me and bum rushing the rez shrine when I wipe. The rez shrine behavior in particular makes me think that they tried to code PvP behavior into the AI. I mean if you can wipe a team why not camp the rez shrine and just keep on them? that's basically what the new AI does almost without exception. Camping is lame in any game regardless of who or what does it.

Rakeris · Nov 20, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Actually Str0b0 me and a friend had a simaler problem, we where going though mineral springs 2 man as we where bored, and after we aggred one group, anouther came a bit before they where killed, we first though it was a patrol, no biggie. But them anouther came, and we got killed, and after we rezzed we went back to try to pick them off and more kept comming. (more avicara that is) It was quite annoying, but kind of amusing, eventually seeing around 20-30 of them all camping the shrine...didn't take screen shots sadly. =(

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 20, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I like the current A.I as well. It's at least made PVE a lot less boring and tedious. And yes I've even experienced all the issues that people have been complaining about, BUT I've only gotten each of them one or twice. Most of the time, I've been able to get around them. And a couple of times resulted in a wipe. No big deal, bugs happen.

Str0b0 · Nov 20, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I like the current A.I as well. It's at least made PVE a lot less boring and tedious. And yes I've even experienced all the issues that people have been complaining about, BUT I've only gotten each of them one or twice. Most of the time, I've been able to get around them. And a couple of times resulted in a wipe. No big deal, bugs happen.

Yes bugs do happen but they should be fixed. I think accountability here is the issue. By and large the response to the AI has been negative so why does it remain the same? I can't argue with the fact that bugs occur and that it takes time to fix them, but the point has been made that this may not be a bug so much as it is a shift towards a more PvP like AI in PvE. If that is the case then the AI is functioning perfectly and doesn't need to be fixed persay. Still if you have a significant portion of your player base, indexed from forums that are assumed to represent a cross section of the entire online community, then I think it should be changed period. I would rather have boring and tedious than frustrating. I think more of a middle ground should be found here. The AI in PvE was supposed to be stupider than a player for a reason. Monsters outnumber you significantly and can also out level you by a fairly significant amount as well. For that reason alone the AI should be much stupider to allow for a balance between their sheer advantage in numbers versus your advantage as a flexible thinker.

reetkever · Nov 20, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Hmmm current AI is dumber than ever...

Battles have fallen to new depths - it's a game of tag now. Chase and being chased.

Why the hell does AI become PvP-like? Because some elite players want a challenge? Well go play PvP then. Monster AI should be dumb for a reason. They already have:

-LARGE supply of energy
-Ability to cast skills very quickly
-Godlike reflexes - the ability to interrupt 1/4 casting time spells
-High levels
-High armor
-Ability to do alot of damage - more than a player could do
-They are with alot in 1 group
-Ability to see you coming from miles away

So why the hell make them intelligent as well? Monster AI has enough advantage over us players already, no need to toughen them up even more. Sure, some people find it boring and want a challenge, but alot people don't.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 20, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Hmmm current AI is dumber than ever...

Battles have fallen to new depths - it's a game of tag now. Chase and being chased.

Why the hell does AI become PvP-like? Because some elite players want a challenge? Well go play PvP then. Monster AI should be dumb for a reason.

So why the hell make them intelligent as well? Monster AI has enough advantage over us players already, no need to toughen them up even more. Sure, some people find it boring and want a challenge, but alot people don't.

I'm really confused by some of your posts. You're saying that A.I. is now dumber than ever, and then argue that A.I. SHOULD be dumb and not so intelligent. Help me out here.

Also some complaining about the A.I. are saying it's too easy. Others saying it's too hard.